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	<title>Comments on: I Didn&#8217;t Say That</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/2008/05/19/i-didnt-say-that/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/2008/05/19/i-didnt-say-that/</link>
	<description>A Gringa Writes About Life In Cancun, Mexico</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: RiverGirl</title>
		<link>http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/2008/05/19/i-didnt-say-that/#comment-1178</link>
		<dc:creator>RiverGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 16:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/?p=300#comment-1178</guid>
		<description>Steve - It's clear to me that there's a human need for faith and meaning.  And twelve years is much too long to hold on to anger, that's not healthy.    I hope your friend can let go of that anger and remember the good times with his son. What a sad thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve - It&#8217;s clear to me that there&#8217;s a human need for faith and meaning.  And twelve years is much too long to hold on to anger, that&#8217;s not healthy.    I hope your friend can let go of that anger and remember the good times with his son. What a sad thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/2008/05/19/i-didnt-say-that/#comment-1176</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 11:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/?p=300#comment-1176</guid>
		<description>Great thread. I have a student who was telling me about how angry he is over the loss of his child. His ex-wife was on vacation - in Cancun - with the 5-year old and (if I remember this right) they were on a catamaran tour and the catamaran overturned. The boy and his mom were thrown overboard and even with a lifebest, the boy drowned. Listening to him tell me this I could physically feel the anger that he had. I expressed my sorry at his loss, and asked when this happened. He said the boy would now be 17 years old had he survived. 12 years? That is a long time to harbor such anger. Not for me to meddle, but perhaps some belief system could have helped him get through this and come to terms...... 12 years.
My oh my.

Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great thread. I have a student who was telling me about how angry he is over the loss of his child. His ex-wife was on vacation - in Cancun - with the 5-year old and (if I remember this right) they were on a catamaran tour and the catamaran overturned. The boy and his mom were thrown overboard and even with a lifebest, the boy drowned. Listening to him tell me this I could physically feel the anger that he had. I expressed my sorry at his loss, and asked when this happened. He said the boy would now be 17 years old had he survived. 12 years? That is a long time to harbor such anger. Not for me to meddle, but perhaps some belief system could have helped him get through this and come to terms&#8230;&#8230; 12 years.<br />
My oh my.</p>
<p>Steve</p>
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		<title>By: RiverGirl</title>
		<link>http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/2008/05/19/i-didnt-say-that/#comment-1161</link>
		<dc:creator>RiverGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 15:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/?p=300#comment-1161</guid>
		<description>Fned - I'm with you that.  For me diversity of thought and belief is what make people great.  I don't agree with my own husband on politics or religion (though we are not too far apart).  I don't think we should all be trying to agree on all that, diversity gives society strength imho.

I'm not always sure how to comfort people, especially if their religious ideas are more, say, rigid than my own.  Perhaps all we can really do is express our sorrow over their loss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fned - I&#8217;m with you that.  For me diversity of thought and belief is what make people great.  I don&#8217;t agree with my own husband on politics or religion (though we are not too far apart).  I don&#8217;t think we should all be trying to agree on all that, diversity gives society strength imho.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not always sure how to comfort people, especially if their religious ideas are more, say, rigid than my own.  Perhaps all we can really do is express our sorrow over their loss.</p>
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		<title>By: Fned</title>
		<link>http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/2008/05/19/i-didnt-say-that/#comment-1160</link>
		<dc:creator>Fned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 09:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/?p=300#comment-1160</guid>
		<description>I used to go against anything to do with religion. I used to say things like "believing in God is stupid, it's clear he doesn't exist" and refusing to go into churches and that sort of stuff. I admit I was a dumb teenager and would do this mostly to shock/impress those around me (when you live in country where 99% of the population is Catholic and you want to stand out, now you know what to do). 

I think I've come a long way since then living in a such a melting pot city as Paris. 

I still don't believe in any religion or particular God and it still pisses me off when people start to get all judgmental and religious on me (I used to work for a Jewish company and get nasty looks for not eating kosher and staying to work after sundown on Fridays, specially because my last name is Shapiro).... 

I hate how people stand behind the wall of their "faith" in order to impose ridiculous and even ludicrous regimes to the easy-to-manipulate masses. I'm not thinking of any religion in particular but when people go to the extremes... it simply pisses me off because I feel they are being ignorant: by refusing to accept any other "truth" can be plausible they are shutting themselves from the world and thus not allowing it to evolve. What a shame. 

However, I have also seen what having faith can do to a person. It can get them through the hard times and it can give them courage to do things they wouldn't do otherwise, all by feeling that someone is "watching over them". I've come to realize that if that is what it takes to get them through the day, then ok, good. I know, it's not what it takes ME to get me through MY day, but that's what diversity and free-thinking is all about, right? 

Which leads me to a new dilemma. What can you say to a mother who has lost a child? In what words can you offer comfort to her without sounding fake? I ask this because, I too HATE the "everything happens for a reason" line (it just sounds sooo.... fake) but then again, what CAN you say? 

Fned. 
P.S. Great post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to go against anything to do with religion. I used to say things like &#8220;believing in God is stupid, it&#8217;s clear he doesn&#8217;t exist&#8221; and refusing to go into churches and that sort of stuff. I admit I was a dumb teenager and would do this mostly to shock/impress those around me (when you live in country where 99% of the population is Catholic and you want to stand out, now you know what to do). </p>
<p>I think I&#8217;ve come a long way since then living in a such a melting pot city as Paris. </p>
<p>I still don&#8217;t believe in any religion or particular God and it still pisses me off when people start to get all judgmental and religious on me (I used to work for a Jewish company and get nasty looks for not eating kosher and staying to work after sundown on Fridays, specially because my last name is Shapiro)&#8230;. </p>
<p>I hate how people stand behind the wall of their &#8220;faith&#8221; in order to impose ridiculous and even ludicrous regimes to the easy-to-manipulate masses. I&#8217;m not thinking of any religion in particular but when people go to the extremes&#8230; it simply pisses me off because I feel they are being ignorant: by refusing to accept any other &#8220;truth&#8221; can be plausible they are shutting themselves from the world and thus not allowing it to evolve. What a shame. </p>
<p>However, I have also seen what having faith can do to a person. It can get them through the hard times and it can give them courage to do things they wouldn&#8217;t do otherwise, all by feeling that someone is &#8220;watching over them&#8221;. I&#8217;ve come to realize that if that is what it takes to get them through the day, then ok, good. I know, it&#8217;s not what it takes ME to get me through MY day, but that&#8217;s what diversity and free-thinking is all about, right? </p>
<p>Which leads me to a new dilemma. What can you say to a mother who has lost a child? In what words can you offer comfort to her without sounding fake? I ask this because, I too HATE the &#8220;everything happens for a reason&#8221; line (it just sounds sooo&#8230;. fake) but then again, what CAN you say? </p>
<p>Fned.<br />
P.S. Great post.</p>
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		<title>By: RiverGirl</title>
		<link>http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/2008/05/19/i-didnt-say-that/#comment-1159</link>
		<dc:creator>RiverGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/?p=300#comment-1159</guid>
		<description>Wow Steve!  So you know better than I do what I was getting at.  Your son was lucky to have a father with such a good perspective.  And I'm sure  he is in a better place now.  And I'm glad you've found some peace.

Contact me when you get here, we can grab a cup of coffee or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow Steve!  So you know better than I do what I was getting at.  Your son was lucky to have a father with such a good perspective.  And I&#8217;m sure  he is in a better place now.  And I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;ve found some peace.</p>
<p>Contact me when you get here, we can grab a cup of coffee or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/2008/05/19/i-didnt-say-that/#comment-1158</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 14:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/?p=300#comment-1158</guid>
		<description>Great post! As the father of a child (Chris) who died after a lengthy illness (21 yrs old, had Cerebral Palsy and shunt malfunction), I used to hear "God will never give you more than you can handle".

Oh really? I am not angry at God, in fact, I consider myself to be pretty "cool" with the man upstairs.... at a bible study when the leader gave me that line, I asked him if I had been a weaker person, would my son then still be alive? Would God have decided not to give me a handicapped son? Why was I "made" such a strong person?

I have never seen this man speechless, but there he was. All he could do was embrace me and cry. I cried, too.

My son has been gone 4 years now (Tue 2/20 was the 4th anniversary of his death). I have come to an inner peace by telling myself that God didn't "give me something I couldn't handle", but rather God helped me to be come a strong enough person to handle whatever "life" threw my way.

I wouldn't trade a minute spent with my son, but I also know that Chris is now in a better place.

Steve - coming to Cancun June 3-18 with my family. Any chance of saying "hi" to you and yours?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post! As the father of a child (Chris) who died after a lengthy illness (21 yrs old, had Cerebral Palsy and shunt malfunction), I used to hear &#8220;God will never give you more than you can handle&#8221;.</p>
<p>Oh really? I am not angry at God, in fact, I consider myself to be pretty &#8220;cool&#8221; with the man upstairs&#8230;. at a bible study when the leader gave me that line, I asked him if I had been a weaker person, would my son then still be alive? Would God have decided not to give me a handicapped son? Why was I &#8220;made&#8221; such a strong person?</p>
<p>I have never seen this man speechless, but there he was. All he could do was embrace me and cry. I cried, too.</p>
<p>My son has been gone 4 years now (Tue 2/20 was the 4th anniversary of his death). I have come to an inner peace by telling myself that God didn&#8217;t &#8220;give me something I couldn&#8217;t handle&#8221;, but rather God helped me to be come a strong enough person to handle whatever &#8220;life&#8221; threw my way.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t trade a minute spent with my son, but I also know that Chris is now in a better place.</p>
<p>Steve - coming to Cancun June 3-18 with my family. Any chance of saying &#8220;hi&#8221; to you and yours?</p>
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		<title>By: RiverGirl</title>
		<link>http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/2008/05/19/i-didnt-say-that/#comment-1152</link>
		<dc:creator>RiverGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 19:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/?p=300#comment-1152</guid>
		<description>I probably learn more from hard times than from easy ones.  But what do I learn from repeatedly seeing the same bad things, like dead lumps, that used to be dogs, lying in the road?  I don't know that I learn anything.

Ah yes, free will!  The big question.  I would be pretty depressed if I didn't believe I had free will.

Oh yes, 42.  For anyone who doesn't get that reference check out the &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Answer_to_Life,_the_Universe,_and_Everything" rel="nofollow"&gt;Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I probably learn more from hard times than from easy ones.  But what do I learn from repeatedly seeing the same bad things, like dead lumps, that used to be dogs, lying in the road?  I don&#8217;t know that I learn anything.</p>
<p>Ah yes, free will!  The big question.  I would be pretty depressed if I didn&#8217;t believe I had free will.</p>
<p>Oh yes, 42.  For anyone who doesn&#8217;t get that reference check out the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Answer_to_Life,_the_Universe,_and_Everything" rel="nofollow">Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gary Denness</title>
		<link>http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/2008/05/19/i-didnt-say-that/#comment-1150</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Denness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 18:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/?p=300#comment-1150</guid>
		<description>You (or at least I) can learn in many ways from hardships. Although it is difficult to say what can be learned from being killed. I'm sure there is a bibelbasher out there somewhere who can tell you, and I'll bet it isn't 42, which we all know to be the real answer. To all questions. 

But being able to learn and improve yourself is a long way off from 'Everything happens for a reaso'. Not least because the same christians who'll tell you this will later tell you that you have free will. Duh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You (or at least I) can learn in many ways from hardships. Although it is difficult to say what can be learned from being killed. I&#8217;m sure there is a bibelbasher out there somewhere who can tell you, and I&#8217;ll bet it isn&#8217;t 42, which we all know to be the real answer. To all questions. </p>
<p>But being able to learn and improve yourself is a long way off from &#8216;Everything happens for a reaso&#8217;. Not least because the same christians who&#8217;ll tell you this will later tell you that you have free will. Duh.</p>
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		<title>By: RiverGirl</title>
		<link>http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/2008/05/19/i-didnt-say-that/#comment-1149</link>
		<dc:creator>RiverGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 15:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/?p=300#comment-1149</guid>
		<description>Heather - You are right, people want reasons for the bad things that happen and they need the comfort.  And that's OK, for them.

Lisa - My husband is pretty good at running of Witnesses, they don't stand a chance with them.  

Jonna - I'm with you, people want to believe that God is involved in their daily lives and "cares" about them.  

My own belief system doesn't involve a God that judges me or tries to teach me lessons.  I learn plenty on my own and  judge myself too harshly already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heather - You are right, people want reasons for the bad things that happen and they need the comfort.  And that&#8217;s OK, for them.</p>
<p>Lisa - My husband is pretty good at running of Witnesses, they don&#8217;t stand a chance with them.  </p>
<p>Jonna - I&#8217;m with you, people want to believe that God is involved in their daily lives and &#8220;cares&#8221; about them.  </p>
<p>My own belief system doesn&#8217;t involve a God that judges me or tries to teach me lessons.  I learn plenty on my own and  judge myself too harshly already.</p>
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		<title>By: lisaloveloca</title>
		<link>http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/2008/05/19/i-didnt-say-that/#comment-1148</link>
		<dc:creator>lisaloveloca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 14:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hiddencancun.com/rivergirl/?p=300#comment-1148</guid>
		<description>Please come stay with me and protect me from the Testigos de Jeovah that keep lurking around my house, waiting to knock on the door when I am in the bathroom or sneak up from behind while I am fixing my car!!  Please?  I's skeered of dem!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please come stay with me and protect me from the Testigos de Jeovah that keep lurking around my house, waiting to knock on the door when I am in the bathroom or sneak up from behind while I am fixing my car!!  Please?  I&#8217;s skeered of dem!!</p>
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